The #1 Mistake in Expert Driven Content | B2B Podcast - Content Wars EP8

Nathan Yerian: So one thing that I like to do with our clients is stay actively involved. So it'd be easier if I just did some strategy things or just sold it and then kind of faded into the background and let our team manage the rest of it, which they're perfectly capable of doing. But I like to stay in contact with the client. I like to see the work actually happening. I like to watch it happening just because there's added things that you pick up that could be improved about the process or the way you're approaching something specifically with that client that might be unique to them. Many times I also learn things that I can apply to other clients. 

So the more I stay close to the work, the better the work becomes. And I was doing that last week with one of our clients. The shoot that we were having, we were in a warehouse. We were making product related content. We had their engineering team there talking about kind of the situations that necessitate some of the newer products that they're coming out with. 

And then also what those products are and how they work in those environments. And what I saw happening was the marketing team and the way that they were preparing their subject matter experts to kind of extract the information from them was actually causing a little bit of friction for the subject matter expert, which was then causing a little bit of friction for the marketing team. And I was kind of watching this happen and was able to step in and say, hey, maybe we could take a slightly different approach. 

And once I learned what they were doing, was able to coach them a different way to prepare to get experts on camera. And the lady that was there literally said to me, you should make content about this. This would be great for other people to learn about. So here we are making content about it, because apparently it would be great for other people to learn about it. 

Adam Marquardt: Yeah, I think that one of the things that we see often is that people try to over prepare or they try to get whatever questions are going to be asked in advance or they try to script it or they try to rehearse it. And I think that as we'll uncover here today that it loses some different elements that I think if you approach it a different way, we'll have better results. Absolutely. 

Nathan Yerian: So let's start with the, I would say the worst option, which is a scripted option. So many marketing teams are going to say, OK, we got whoever on camera. That's great. We need to come up with a script. We need to control every aspect of what they say, which can be true. It's possible for that to be fine. So I don't want to say, oh, never script anything. There are times where a script makes a huge amount of sense when you need to have an exact statement. Scripting is usually the way to go for that. But for regular content, for product content, for expert fueled content, that's usually not the best place to start. 

Adam Marquardt: And I think that that is a very common experience where you get a thought leader sitting in front of a teleprompter and it just doesn't feel natural because they're reading. They typically will lack body movements or emotions on the face or being able to interact in a way that doesn't feel like it's scripted. 

And I think that there are obviously a few people in the organization where maybe they've had media trainer, maybe they've been on video before where they can comfortably do that and they can comfortably articulate it. And you will never know that they're reading. Their eyes don't bounce. They don't sway. 

They don't do these things that give away that they're reading from a teleprompter. But it's for the majority of people, it just doesn't feel natural. It doesn't look natural. It doesn't sound natural. And it kind of loses that authenticity. 

Nathan Yerian: It's not natural. It's not natural for them to sit in front of a video camera with lights and a microphone to start with. And then it's not natural for them to just be reading a script. And many times it's not a script that they wrote. So it's not in their own words. 

It's stuff that they're just being asked to say. And it's foreign. It's not how they speak. It's not an environment that they're comfortable in. And it feels awkward when you're watching it because they feel awkward doing it. If they feel awkward doing it, it's going to feel awkward when you watch it. You can tell when they start reading the script, there's reduced emotion. There's reduced emphasis on words. There's reduced connection to the content that they're actually putting out there that affects the quality of that message going out. 

So, you know, when you're thinking about we've got our subject matter expert, they've agreed to do the content or we've gotten approval for whatever reason. The script is the last thing that you want to do. And the more nervous they are, they're going to want to rely on the crutch of the script. But it won't create better content. 

Adam Marquardt: No, yeah, we actually just had this literally earlier this morning. I was asked to review a script and give my input of whether it'd be usable or not. And I listened to the voiceover that they read. It is usable, but you can tell that they lack the emotion because they're sitting there reading a piece of paper and it doesn't have the same inflections. It doesn't have the same emotion. 

It doesn't have the same captivating ability because it's just not natural. And you'll be able to tell. Now, they'll be able to clean it up a little bit. They'll be able to add some music and they'll be able to make it sound good enough. But the reality is you can just tell it didn't feel natural for that person doing that voiceover. Yeah. 

Nathan Yerian: And this is for the subject matter experts or for even the marketing team that is faced with this, do we do a script? Is that going to allow us to get across the finish line and get the right information out of the person? If you're the subject matter expert, be aware that you aren't going to sound normal. You're not going to look normal. It's creating an awkward situation for you. So it's not the most ideal situation for you. Even if you're thinking you want that crutch, the reality is you've been asked to be on camera because you're a subject matter expert. 

You don't need a script. You know the information. You're giving the same information as if someone asked you the question and you just needed to deliver the answer, which in most cases you do probably on a daily basis. 

So it's not crazy. No one's asking you to do some complex math problem on the spot. They're asking you about the information that's already in your brain. That you should be able to relay relatively easily for the marketing team. What you have to be able to prepare your subject matter expert for is exactly that. We are not going to ask you anything you don't know. We're going to ask you the same things that you have included in conversations on a daily basis. You talk to our customers. You talk to our management teams. You talk to our production teams. 

You talk to all these people and you are the subject matter expert when it comes to whatever your area is. It's the same conversation. We just want to have it live on camera. PS. We're going to be able to edit it. We're going to be able to talk through some things on the fly. We're not going to sit down and just say give me the answer and we're going to take that answer and verbatim. 

That's what's going out. It's going to be a super calm chill environment that we're going to invite you to. We don't need a script. We need to be a little bit more fluid and we need to let your expertise, your passion, your emotion, your personality come out in the content that we're making. 

Adam Marquardt: I think it's a very common thing to initially think that you either want to script it or want to get the interview questions or want to be overly prepared for it. I just had this experience over the weekend where an organization I was a part of asked me to be on video and immediately I was like, well, I'm going to need the question so that I can know what I'm talking about. And I was like, don't lie. You asked for a script. But I was like, hold on. Like, okay, this is the thing that we hate when people do because we know that it deteriorates the quality of it. 

So what's the right thing to do? And that's where I said, okay, I know the topic. I just have to think of what direction I want to speak on because I could speak on it in two, three, four, five different directions. I just have to pick one and go with that because I know it from my experience, from my expertise, from my position and kind of that authentic point of view. And that's what they want because it feels more real. It has the opportunity to connect more. And that's the thing that you lose when it's scripted. Absolutely. 

Nathan Yerian: And you brought up a really good point of when the person on camera or the subject matter expert is trying to understand, and that's really what they're doing. They're trying to understand some sort of frame of reference of what are we doing? If there is a void of what we're doing, they need a script. The next thing that they're going to come to is, well, just, just give me the questions ahead of time. 

I can tell you right now, for all parties included, that is the wrong thing to do. You do not want to give a person that's going to be on camera answering questions. The questions ahead of time, their natural tendency is going to be to answer those questions. They'll probably make notes of the answers of the questions, which turns into a script. 

Yeah, you do not want that. If you give them the questions ahead of time and it turns into a script, you're back in script land. They have dedicated answers that they're trying to rehearse, trying to give you the right answer, and it will mess you up. 

I've seen very seasoned CEOs that have been given the questions because they demanded that they have them and they wrote answers and they tried to memorize them and they melted on camera when they did not get their own scripted answer correct. None of it was natural. None of it was passionate. It was, it was, it was not good. 

Adam Marquardt: It's worse than a script because a script with a teleprompter, you can at least look at it, follow along, know that you're hitting every word. Oh, I messed up. I can go back when it's in your brain and you've memorized it and you're thinking, Oh, I forgot to say that now it's out of order. Now I have to go back. 

Now I have, and it just, it falls apart every single time it falls apart. The only one time that I have seen this work somewhat well was when the CEOs native language was not English and they had to think about the questions and then work on like the translation of it. And even that was a challenge. It did not come out nearly as good as the other executives on that day because they had kind of this pre rehearsed answer that they felt like they had to give. And the other thing that I've often found is when whoever it is is on camera is trying to remember what they planned on saying. They go through it really quick and they just say whatever it is because they're going to forget it if they don't get it out right now. When they go through it super fast, it also loses that connection. It also loses that authenticity. And it's really challenging because they over prepare. 

Nathan Yerian: The over preparation is the thing that ultimately destroys them because if you, again, they're an expert, if you just asked them on the fly, one of these questions as you were passing them in the hallway, they could give you a perfect answer. 

So it's just the over preparation or the nervousness about the camera, whatever it is. So, so those are the hurdles that you need to start to break down. And as I mentioned, the production that I had gone to, they kind of had a hybrid situation going. They had some questions prepared. They hadn't exactly shared the questions with the subject matter expert because we had told them, please don't do that. But they did create an outline of everything that they wanted to cover. And I was asking them about, you know, where did this come from? 

Like what this outline, these points that you want to hit. And, you know, they said, well, it came from the subject matter expert. So you went to them and picked their brain and asked them questions and then formatted it all into a document that you want them to repeat back to you. So they are the source. 

They can give you the information without this. Yeah. Right? And she's like, well, yes. And I was like, okay. 

All right. So let's approach this a little bit differently then. So what they were trying to do was how do we get them to say every single point on here? How do we give them to basically get this information out of them? So what they've created essentially is a list of talking points that they want to hit on, which I would say is probably your best friend. 

Like if you have a subject matter expert, hey, bud, here's the general topics, not the questions, not the outline, not all the key points and facts and figures and things of that nature. Just we're going to talk about product X, Y or Z. We're going to talk about why it was developed. We're going to talk about the development process. We're going to talk about the problems that it solves for the customer. And we're going to talk about what's next in the evolution of this particular product. 

That's what we're going to talk about. And for a true expert, that gives them enough context to know, oh, I know what we're going to talk about. Turns out, I know all of these things. I was there when all of this happened. I have intricate knowledge of this. 

I'm good. What they were trying to do, at least in the beginning, was actually take the list with the details and make them say it. So it almost turned back into a script where it was like, hey, you answered the question, but I just want you to say it like this. 

I'm going to say the line, you say it back to me. And the two things that were happening is, one, they weren't getting the content that they really wanted. It wasn't coming off naturally because you're just repeating what someone else is saying. 

It wasn't an original thought that you're just putting out into the world. And then the second thing that it was doing was it was making the on-camera talent, the subject matter expert, it was making them nervous. It felt very much like they were giving you the wrong answer. So you were stepping in to tell them the right answer. And in this particular case, there were a number of people that were there to help out, which is great. They were there to make sure, hey, are we getting the right answer and the best answer? 

And a complete answer, which is awesome. But when someone is interviewing someone and there's someone else adding their two cents and there's someone else adding their two cents, it's too much happening to ask anyone to perform well in that condition. Have your points that you want to cover, but stop approaching it like it is a checklist to get through and start approaching it like a conversation. 

Adam Marquardt: You and I have had a ton of different days where we have been interviewing different people and I know that some of the best follow-up questions have come not because it was on the list, not because it was scripted, but because they said something that was just a little bit different or it had something that stood out and you were able to say, tell me more about that or unpack that more or how did you get there? And that's where the story can really unfold and where we're able to get some of those deeper points of, oh, well, we were really struggling with this or, oh, you know, the competition was starting to create this or, oh, our customers were asking for this and it's like, wow, that's a really pivotal point in the story that there's no way you could have scripted that or there's no way you could have asked that question in advance because it was part of the way the story unfolded that they were just sharing naturally. And so many people forget the value in being fully present and asking those follow-up questions. 

Nathan Yerian: It's also how you give yourself the ability to get in every nook and cranny of information that you want to get into without putting so much pressure on that subject matter expert. And when it turns into a conversation versus a script or a list of questions that you want to check off as you do it, it turns into a much more natural environment that really primes a true expert to display their expertise. And when you're doing this type of content, when you're doing expert-driven content, that's what you need to happen. 

Adam Marquardt: So to bring this full circle, tell me if you were consulting somebody that was going into a video shoot next week and they said, hey, we've got four subject matter experts that we want to sit down, we want to do it the right way, what is the way that we should actually approach this to be successful? 

Nathan Yerian: The first thing that I think, especially from a marketing team standpoint, is be prepared to coach them through their level of discomfort. So if you're a subject matter expert, you're probably not on camera all the time. It's not going to be the most natural thing. You're going to get people that are nervous and don't want to do it. You're going to get people that are, oh, I need a script or I need the questions ahead of you. Just know that's going to happen. 

You have to be able to have the conversation of Susan, Fred. You don't need a script. This is your information. This is what you do. You don't need the questions ahead of time. And you know what? Even if I gave you the questions ahead of time, they're going to change because we're going to have a real conversation. So I could give you some questions, but the second you give me one answer and I go a different direction, it's going to mess you up because I haven't given you all the questions because it's a conversation, not a checklist of questions. It's just me and you sitting down having a conversation. Remind them that it's video. 

Speaker 3: We can edit. It's fine. We're going to talk for 30 minutes. We're going to use five minutes of what you say. It's okay if you mess up. 

Nathan Yerian: It's okay if we have to do it five times. It doesn't matter. It's fine. So work through their level of discomfort. Because once you get them comfortable to the point of they don't feel like they need a script. They don't feel like they need the questions ahead of time. What you can do is help them prepare. So deal with discomfort. Next, help them prepare. Say, hey, how about we sit down for 30 minutes and we talk through what we're going to talk about? And at this point, I would highly suggest recording this because it's something you're going to want to reference back, but record. Walk them through. Hey, what happened when this happened? 

And what happened when that happened? And really what it's going to do for the marketer is give you the story ahead of time so that you know what avenues you can and should go down. You have an idea of the follow up questions you might want to hit on. It also gives your expert kind of a trial run through the process. This is optional, by the way. 

Most people don't do this. If you have somebody that's nervous or you want the most complete story possible, this is highly recommended. If we were doing a documentary and we wanted an expert witness in our documentary, this is exactly what would happen. You would pre-interview them before you interviewed them so that you could get the most story out of them as possible. 

Adam Marquardt: And it doesn't have to be a sit down, cameras, lights, everything else. It can be like a zoom call. It'll be a phone call. 

Nathan Yerian: Again, record it so that you can go back to it, make a transcript of whatever it is. You know, at the end of the day, that document, the transcript, is what you can use to start building what are the talking points that we want to go on. 

Not on a checklist basis, but on a just high level topics. We're going to talk about the inception. We're going to talk about the process. We're going to talk about challenges that we had along the way. We're going to talk about these high level things. And then that's the document you can give to your subject matter expert. These are the topics that we're going to cover. They're going to feel comfortable saying, oh, we spoke about these topics. 

Here are the topics that they provided. Okay, I have a pretty good idea of what's going to happen here. Now when they show up, they've already done it. 

And they have a list of the topics. They're not preparing anything. They're not overprepared. They're not scripting something. They're just going to sit down and say, I'm ready. I'm prepared, which is what you want. That's what's going to create the best content possible. The calmer everybody is, the better it's going to be. Some of it will come with repetition. By the 20th time you've done this, it will seem easy and it won't matter and it'll flow and it'll be nice and it'll be perfect and everybody will be happy and there'll be rainbows and sunshine and a bunch of other probably unicorns who knows what, but until that happens, there's going to be a little bit of nerves and discomfort and you just have to work through that. These are just people, whether it's the subject matter expert looking at a market or going, oh my God, they want the right answer. 

What am I going to do? They're just people trying to get you to display your expertise. If you're on the marketing side, oh my God, I got to get them to get the right answer again and we got to program this out because I have all these things that we have to do. They're not a machine that they can't perform on demand like that. 

They're just a person. You just need to talk with them. So the more you turn it into a conversation that's light, that feels nice, that is personable, the more you can relate with the person beforehand and during, the better it's going to be. I mean, some of the best interviews that I've done are the times I got to hang out for 15 to 30 minutes with the person I'm going to interview prior to the interview. They literally feel like they're sitting down with their friend to talk about that really cool thing that they know about, that they're kind of excited to tell you about. 

That's the way it should feel. So the final thing I would say we already kind of covered, which is prep your subject matter expert that this probably isn't the last time we're going to call on them to be an expert. Not everything has to be perfect, but we're going to continue to do this. We're going to continue to rely on you as an expert to capture our message, to tell it to our market. So prepare for repetition. 

Don't schedule a video shoot schedule a quarterly video shoot where we're going to do this so we can keep capturing this. So if your subject matter expert isn't perfect on day one, cool, you're going to get another at bat, both for you and for them. So have those conversations about this isn't a one time event, but we're going to keep doing this. So you're going to get better over time. Again, if you mess up, we'll edit it out. Doesn't matter. We're going to keep going with this and we're going to make you look like a rock star. 

Adam Marquardt: And when they see the final product, usually all their fears, all their insecurities of that day, because usually even when they walk out of here, they're like, uh, how was that? And it's like, no, that was great. That was really good. 

We got exactly what we wanted and we'll edit it together and it'll be great in the end. But once they see that final video, they feel this sense of relief like, Oh, okay, that is good. They did display me in a good light. I did, they did highlight all the positive things I said. 

They did edit out the things that were either mistakes or mess ups or, you know, these weird transitions, they, they were able to fix that and it does look good. And obviously that's our job. But at the end of the day, that will make them feel better and more comfortable for next time going into it. So like you said, don't just make it a one and done event, but once they see the end result, they're going to be more open to doing it in the future. 

Nathan Yerian: So moral of the story, full circle, stay away from scripts with subject matter experts. These people are experts. They don't need a freaking script. If you're going to write a script, guess what? You're going to get the information from them anyway. So stay away from that prepared questions. If that's what you want to do, or you need that, fine, do not share that with the subject matter expert. And what you can share is a list of talking points or high level topics that you're going to cover to get them comfortable. Best way to get there, pre interview them so that everybody knows what's going to happen before you get in front of the cameras and hit record.